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Author Topic: Costa Concordia  (Read 553 times)
Josie
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« on: January 18, 2012, 15:28:46 PM »

I thought this merits a new thread as there's rather too much going on on the How's your day thread.

Having been pulled into the NYT FB page by the link from Bermejo I noticed this article which seems pretty comprehensive so thought I'd share.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/17/world/europe/oversight-of-cruise-lines-at-issue-after-disaster.html?pagewanted=1&smid=fb-nytimes
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John B
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« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2012, 15:44:41 PM »

Not bad, but again presenting passengers assertions almost as facts. "untrained staff" etc. Any professional response to an emergency is going to look chaotic to lay people because they find it totally new and confusing.

The BBC piece this morning, suggesting that the same ship went on a similar course on 11 Aug 2011 with the company's authorisation, and that the captain had fallen into a life boat, and could not get back onto the ship because of the list, is interesting.  I think the whole picture is going to change a couple of times before this is through.  I suspect the company has quite a lot to hide, and are heaping as much as possible onto one man. Having said that, he's probably got a lot to answer for anyway.

One thing that I came to realise is that, with the ship on its side, transverse passages were turned into deep vertical shafts, and cabin doors on longtitudinal passages were now in the "ceiling" or "floor". If you opened the door, you might crawl along the passage wall, but only until you got to a transverse passage.  If your cabin opened onto a transverse passage, you could go nowhere.  Horrible.
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Josie
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« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2012, 15:57:10 PM »

Just like in Titanic in fact!
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Clanky
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« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2012, 16:44:00 PM »

I don't think I have ever read so much horseshit in one article before!

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the enormous cruise line industry, which operates without much regulation.

They have got to be f*****g joking! Flag state inspections and audits, port state inspections, classification society inspections and audits, statutory and monitored company internal audits...

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While airline pilots are directed and guided by controllers on the ground, sea captains are considered to be in complete control. “It’s not like the aircraft industry, where you file a flight plan,” said Peter Wild, a cruise industry consultant at G. P. Wild (International) Limited

Airline pilots are guided by air traffic control in controlled airspace, had they looked a little further, ships are guided by vessel traffic systems (very similar to ATC) in areas of restricted navigation), as for the flight plans, no we don't use those, we don't f*****g fly, ours are called passage plans, although they are essentially the same thing, take a look at GP Wilde's website to see how qualified this guy is to comment on the supervision of the cruise industry.

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Rather, at most cruise lines, company directors determine the routes, which are then transmitted to the captain and a navigating officer, who scrutinize the charted course but are meant to follow it.

Captain Schettino’s boss, Pier Luigi Foschi, insisted that a safe route had been programmed into the navigating computers and that alarms would have sounded for any deviation. “This route was put in correctly,” said Mr. Foschi, who is chairman of Costa Crociere S.p.A.


This is the best yet, company directors may determine which ports the ships visit, they certainly do not determine the course and transmit it to the captain, and as for signori Foschi's comment, he is talking out of his ar*e, even if a course is plotted it can be deviated from (and often is for collision avoidance reasons) without alarms sounding, I do so hope that one of the things which comes out of this is a legal requirement to inform the company every time the ship deviates from the planned course, I would almost retrain as a deck officer just to be able to phone the managing director to inform him that we are altering course to avoid a tanker at 01:30 and then again at 02:12 to tell him about the alteration for the container ship and so on throughout the night.   

It will be interesting to hear Costa / Carnival trying to defend some of the statements they have made over the last few days in court.

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For many years, the global cruise line industry has operated under a loosely defined system that tends to escape scrutiny by courts and regulators. Cruise line instances of crime, pollution and safety and health violations have often gone unpoliced because no single authority is in charge

This loosely defined system which tends to escape scrutiny from regulators is known as the International Safety Management Code and is scrutinesed by a very strict series of audits and inspections.

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A United Nations agency, the International Maritime Organization, oversees maritime safety through international conventions, including one for the Safety of Life at Sea, known as Solas, adopted in 1914, which grew out of the global anger that stemmed from the loss of the Titanic in 1912. But the agency has no policing powers.


No they pass laws which are ratified and policed by nation states in exactly the same way that happens in the airline industry.

I guess after any incident like this there will be a queue of clueless halfwits waiting to spout expert opinion.
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John B
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« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2012, 16:51:23 PM »

Yes, I now realise that, not wishing to shoot the messenger, I was perhaps a little kind Smiley
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Silly Gilly
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« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2012, 16:55:24 PM »

good job we've got you, eh Clanky Wink
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Clanky
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« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2012, 17:06:24 PM »

I didn't realise there was a second page to the article, it gets better....

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While electronic systems are standard on ships like the Costa Concordia, all ships are also required to carry paper charts, said Angus Menzies, a retired British Navy commodore who is now chief executive of the Honorable Company of Master Mariners, a professional association in London for qualified sea captains.

No, no all ships are not required to carry paper charts, for that statement alone Mr. Menzies should resign.

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But the captain is king on his ship, Mr. Menzies said. “The man on the bridge decides everything.”


Even allowing for the fact that it looks as though the NYT have deliberately taken much of what this numpty has said out of context, if Mr Menzies had the slightest idea how a modern ship is run he would realsie what a ridiculous statement that is.

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Passengers described delays and confusion, with unclear instructions and inexperienced crew members. Emily Lau, 27, and her husband, Benji Smith, 34, an American honeymoon couple on board, told ABC’s “Good Morning America” that “it was every man for himself,” Ms. Lau said. “The main thing is no one knew how to help because they were never trained. That is the cruise ship’s fault.”


These inexperienced, never trained crew members saved this ungrateful b****h's f*****g life, along with 99% of those onboard, in the dark and on a ship whiich was listing. Imagine what they could have done if they had actually been trained as they are required by law to be before they even join the ship and every week while onboard.

Quote
Cruise passengers are supposed to attend a safety briefing within 24 hours of boarding. “We have never had any drills,” Ms. Lau said

That would be because the cargo had not been onboard for 24 hours, a fgact which the NYT must be fully aware of, but which nthey prefer to gloss over because it would make their expert witness's statement that little bit less dramatic.
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John B
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« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2012, 18:32:48 PM »

My experience of the press when they report on something that I was very familiar with, was usually similar outrage to yours. So, I rarely believe the papers or TV.  I'll be fascinated to see again the transcript of the conversation between the Captain and the rescue commander after all the surrounding facts have been established.  At the moment it's like a reality TV programme where they stitch someon up by selective editing.
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Bob Cunningham
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« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2012, 19:18:29 PM »

Todays Manchester Evening New.

There is a sick joke in the comments. Angry

  http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1471035_cruise-ship-terror-warrington-dancer-tells-how-she-helped-costa-concordia-passengers-to-safety-as-water-rose
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Josie
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« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2012, 19:19:48 PM »

I do so hope you didn't have anything important to do this afternoon Clanky.  Very interesting to read your comments.
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Clanky
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« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2012, 19:52:13 PM »

I do so hope you didn't have anything important to do this afternoon Clanky.  Very interesting to read your comments.

Only a few safety related thingts, but we don't take those very seriously! Smiley

Does mr. J get as inscenced by media coverage of air incidents?
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Josie
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« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2012, 20:00:43 PM »

Yes and he can't wait to meet you again for an in depth chat about this ship!

He's going to a conference at the European Air Safety HQ in Germany on Sunday and I bet they'll all be talking about the ship too.
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Clanky
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« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2012, 20:14:25 PM »

I am planning to be back in Lanzarote for around about Easter weekend, so if you guys are around, he may get his wish!
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Josie
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« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2012, 20:39:53 PM »

Seems likely.  We're hoping to be over for Easter weekend through to and including the following weekend!
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Bernie Bobcat
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« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2012, 21:10:51 PM »

Clanky, that was wonderful! 

I can just imagine that sparks flying off the keypad as you were typing away! 

You just can't beat a bit of PASSION in your posts!

Priceless!   Grin
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